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Informacje na temat estrow oraz ogolna wiedza - Na pytania odpowie Thomas Schaefer (TomNJ)

poziom1989

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@TomNJ What is your opinion on ZnDDP, which also functions as AO. At a higher concentration, there is no need to use a higher concentration of amine / phenolic AO? Also, as the oil contains Mo compounds.
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
Depends on the total formulation, the formulator's goals, and test results. Adding or increasing amine or phenolic AOs will generally enhance the oxidative stability of the oil, if that is your goal, but it adds to the cost. The amount and type of AO "needed" is the amount needed to meet your formulation goals.
 

kobzacz

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@TomNJ What's a purpose of oil formulations with narrow viscosity range, for example 15W-30 or 20W-40? Is any application where 20W-50 is better than 5W-50 or 10W-30 is better than 5W-30/0W-30? Maybe it is because less viscosity improvers which results better oil stability?
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
Oil manufacturers chose what viscosity grades to offer based on market demand more than technical need. The narrow viscosity range oils are fairly low in volume and represent a small percentage of the PCMO market, at least here in the USA. From a technical standpoint they generally have a higher HTHS viscosity and lower volatility than wider viscosity range oils, which is preferred by some manufacturers of small air cooled engines used in outdoor power equipment such a lawn mowers.
 

kobzacz

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What about cars with air-cooled engines, such as VW Beetle or Fiat 500 '57? Is there olso better to use narrow viscosity range? It's hard to follow manufacturer's recomendations, because they are many years old, and reffering to then times.

Is it good to use benefits from huge development in tribology, and use modern (containing PAO and/or esthers) oils in old, classic cars? What oil parameter is important (if any) in aplications in engines without full-flow oil filter, or having only centrifugal one?
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
The right viscosity grade depends on engine design, engine temperatures, and climate. If the air cooled engines run hotter, then a higher viscosity and a more narrow range may benefit, but engine design and condition are also factors so it is hard to say. And you may need a wider range to allow cold temperature starting.

In general, modern tribology brings better additives and base oils than old formulations and should be suitable for older engines along with the right viscosity grade. If I could not find any oil recommendations from my engine manufacture, then I would lean toward a thicker oil in old engines, such as 10W-40, or 5W-40 if cold starting is a factor. I am not a mechanical engineer so this is just an opinion. I don't know what factors affect oil filters.
 

poziom1989

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I know that Castrol Syntec 0w-30 was analyzed, and more precisely FT-IR, do you still have? The Ketjenlube component was used there, tell us something about your knowledge. From what I have learned, it is an alternative to esters in oils based only on PAO.
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
I have not seen a GC analysis of Castrol Syntec in over 20 years, not since they switched in the USA from POA / ester to Group lll +. The German Castrol 0W-30 (green oil) was reported to contain Ketjenlube from a BITOG analysis some 15+ years ago. I don't know if they still use it.

I like Ketjenlube and would use it at 5-10% if I were formulating a motor oil. As I recall it is expensive and not biodegradable or renewable, but offers a nice set of properties such as high VI and high lubricity and is available in higher viscosities. As a lower cost biodegradable renewable alternative you can substitute an etherized POE such as Calester 202 or Hatcol 2999.
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
Very interesting properties! I would love to know its chemical structure. Looks ideal for 0W-X oils.
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
I am familiar with the concept but have no experience in this field.
 

poziom1989

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As far as I know this can be done after blending to obtain a uniform particle size, e.g. after adding polar PAM to PIBS or some other polar component.
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
Yes but I have not seen data suggesting this will improve performance.
 

poziom1989

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@TomNJ Have you been exposed to tests to minimize deposits around the piston rings? As far as I know, the mixture of base oils plays a special role, i.e. aniline point and Kauri-Butanol Value, the lower the viscosity the better. Oil with too high concentration of Zn, P, Ca is in most cases a bad choice and VMs, but as far as I know they are also dispersing.
 

TomNJ

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2019 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
We only tested for high temperature deposits in jet engine oils and industrial oils, not motor oils. Our oils were 100% POE based and had no metal compounds (ashless) and no detergents or dispersants. Polar base oils such as esters and ANs should help with piston deposits, as do anti-oxidants. VMs may contribute to deposits but it depends on what type and how much. We used a dispersant PMA type VM in some industrial formulations that at low levels did not contribute to deposits at high temperatures.
 

poziom1989

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@TomNJ You have once carried out some tests for the compatibility of elastomers with base oils, e.g. PAOs.
 
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