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Informacje na temat estrow oraz ogolna wiedza - Na pytania odpowie Thomas Schaefer (TomNJ)

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@TomNJ Amine AOs also works best with PAOs, and it is easy to confirm its presence with FTIR.

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@TomNJ

Thank you ! This is a great information.
So I believe that these truly synthetic motor oil can withstand a bit more in this conditions that rather conventional synthetic oils ?
Also they should provide excellent protection for old engines, shoulnd't they ?
 
@TomNJ hier

as an expert in ester base oils, I want you to explain in detail why this type of oil will not be optimal for PCMO. This ester is not optimized to work in such an environment at all, it mix with gases. Probably low NPI will have a positive effect on pollutant dispersion, but anyway, in my opinion ashless dispersants are better. Based on the MSDS I see AO N-phenyl-1-Naphthylamine and Tris (methylphenyl) phosphate ie TCP. Can you bring this closer? It's some kind of AW etc? How is the compatibility with elastomers? Hydrolysis resistance?
 
The oil you reference is a jet turbine oil meeting NATO Code 0-160 specification. It contains about 95% POE with amine type anti-oxidants and phosphate type anti-wear. It's viscosity is equivalent to a 0W-8 oil and it is ashless with no detergents, dispersants, or ZDDP. The base ester has a very low NPI, probably in the 40s, and contains a high level of C5 acid, so elastomer compatibility and hydrolysis would be a concern in a car engine.

TCP is an anti-wear additive commonly used in jet engine oils but not suitable for PCMOs. The oil likely contains a partial acid phosphate or amine terminated phosphate EP additive to pass the NATO Code 0-160 specification, and this additive as also not elastomer friendly.

In short, this oil was not designed for use in automobiles, does not contain critical additives for internal combustion engines, and in time will likely cause issues with wear, corrosion, and elastomer degradation.
 
I have never had a varnish problem. I have only formulated and used synthetic oils for the past 50 years, mostly based on or containing esters.
 
Yes it is. Group V can control deposits quite well. You did not use the PAOs at all?
 
Tell me more about this oil, what AOs you used, etc. What is the viscosity of the base oils?
 
The base oils were 50/50 of 12 cSt POE and 8 cSt PAO, AOs were alkylated diphenylamine and alkylated phenothiazine, Anti-wear/EP was triphenyl phosphorothionate (TPPT). It also contained some anti-rust, anti-corrosion, and anti-foam additives. It has been in my pressure washer pump for 20 years with no issues.
 
Tom do you have experience how to protect / extend the operation of the timing chain? Which oil additives have a direct effect on the chain?
 
[USER = 1304] @TomNJ [/ USER] https://monsonco.com/product/irganox-l-57/

Do you know this AO?
Yes, it is a mixed alkyl diphenylamine, I believe C4 and C8. I have tested it and it is fine for lower temperature applications such as PCMOs, but I prefer the C8 diphenylamine, Vanlube 81 or SS, for the very high temperatures associated with full POE oils. Alkylated Diphenylamines are synergistic with Phenyl Alpha Naphthylamine and its alkylated versions, and such combinations are often used in jet engine oils.
 
@TomNJ As far as I know Amsoil is widely used, do you know something about it? Generally, in PCMO, it is rarely used, as far as I know. Mainly phenol / amine AO mix, amine e.g. bis (nonylphenyl) amine.

Interesting this AO: https://www.vanderbiltchemicals.com...grease-additives-antioxidants-aromatic-amines

"Has a good color stability"

Color change is often observed, mainly due to the processes of oxidation into oil. As we often observe, I noted that group IV oils oxidize more slowly, especially in combination with amine AO. What can you say about it?
 
I do not know the Amsoil formulations. The "color stability" claim for the Vanlube 81 probably refers to its lack of photosensitivity. Some AOs such as Phenyl Alpha Naphthylamine and its alkylated versions are photosensitive and will cause the oil to change color when exposed to sunlight, turning orange, then reddish, then purple.
 
@TomNJ I see. But due to the contact of the engine oil with oxygen and high temperatures, the oil may also turn darker. To my knowledge, phenolic AO makes the oil darker slower or is it wrong?
 
Oil will darken with oxidation, usually taking a brown to dark brown color. Also dissolved deposits will darken the oil. I don't know how phenolics compare to other AOs in color change.
 
@TomNJ

How can you explain it? After adding this POE, you can clearly see that probably a VM.
 
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